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Post by Gaz on Oct 20, 2014 21:37:59 GMT 10
Addressing Christian Objections
If you're not Christian, this will be foolishness to you, so please feel free to skip over it.
I want to take a bunny-trail here for just a second for my fellow Christians, and address a common argument I often hear against future-looking preparedness. I've been told “long term food storage is a Mormon thing” - and the LDS church does indeed recommend a year's amount of food to be set aside by all it's families. So, the argument goes, if it's Mormon and not traditional Christian, we should not do it. And after all, Jesus told us to not store up our treasures where they will deteriorate, but to instead store up our treasures in Heaven. He also told us to think of the birds of the field, how even though they do not work or toil, not even King Solomon was robed in the splendor of their plumage. Likewise, Jesus told a parable of a man who took great comfort and security in all his filled grain silos, but who had his life required of him that very night. These verses and others like them are often grossly misinterpreted into an argument against preparedness, self-sufficiency or food storage - that's horrible exegesis! Christ was not telling us to not work, or to not put aside food for the winter. He was telling us to get our priorities straight. It is fine to can peaches and fill our pantry, that's just good stewardship of our God-given resources, but it is not OK to put our trust in the limited contents of our pantry or garden or brokerage account. Our trust is to be focused on God our Provider. Filled pantries are not a bad thing - indeed, they are a gift provided by God! Our faith and trust and hope must rest in the Giver of all good things, not the gift. THAT is Christ's message!
"Warn the rich people of this world not to be proud or to trust in wealth that is easily lost. Tell them to have faith in God, who is rich and blesses us with everything we need to enjoy life." 1 Timothy 6:17
I encourage you to read Genesis 6:13-22 and Genesis 41:25-56. I sincerely believe that Noah and Joseph are great Biblical models of what we are to do when we perceive a large, looming crisis: to prayerfully listen to Gods voice, to obediently prepare as we are called, to provide for our extended families, and to be a blessing to others by sharing our knowledge. In all things we are to bring glory to God's name. We are to look through any coming cataclysm into the future God is using us to create. Remember that when Noah began building the arc, there was no rain. Before the 7 years of famine Joseph prepared for, there were 7 years of bounty. Those who waited for the rain were too late to prepare and perished. Those nations which feasted in the 7 years of plenty had to go to Joseph during the 7 year famine, and purchase at great cost the seven year surplus he hid away.
"A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." Proverbs 22:3
"Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up. It shall serve as food for you and for [your animals]." Genesis 6:21
"During the good years that are coming, they should collect all such food and store the grain under Pharaoh’s control, protecting the food in the cities. This food will be reserved for the seven years of famine to follow in the land of Egypt so that the land won’t be ravaged by the famine.” Genesis 41:35-36
We are also called upon and held accountable for warning others of any approaching danger which we see. We will each have to answer to God for how well we stood watch on the city's walls, and for how faithful we were in sounding the alarm.
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? I Corinthians 14:8
When the watchman sees the enemy coming, he sounds the alarm to warn the people. Then if those who hear the alarm refuse to take action, it is their own fault if they die. They heard the alarm but ignored it, so the responsibility is theirs. If they had listened to the warning, they could have saved their lives. But if the watchman sees the enemy coming and doesn’t sound the alarm to warn the people, he is responsible for their captivity. They will die in their sins, but I will hold the watchman responsible for their deaths.’ Ezekiel 33:3-6
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Post by krull68 on Oct 21, 2014 13:11:06 GMT 10
All excellent scriptures, I shall endeavour over the next couple of days to find and add a few more from the New Testament.
Some points I would add,
Solomon, bringing supplies, to build the Temple, and to the Priests grain house, David, using the Priests storehouse to feed in time of need. New Testament, Churches sharing their excess with other Churches in time of need, IE: drought, (Acts I believe, but will recheck on that one). New Testament, Christ talking about the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins, although this is directly to do with preparing for his return, it can also be looked at from the point of view of preparing for the tribulation, where you will not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast which will make you unable to join Christ on his return.
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Post by krull68 on Oct 21, 2014 13:26:26 GMT 10
From and LDS point of view on food stocks. It is known as "The Bishops storehouse". We are asked to each have a minimum of one year supply of food, this way in times of need, either within the ward or within the local area, the Bishop can call upon members to supply goods for the rescue of others, either from flood, fire, storm, amongst other disasters. This is so we can be as self sufficient as possible and not have to rely upon the "world". Although, we as LDS Church do not discriminate any religion or non at all, we are prepared to help any who need help.
To put it into a purely prepper lingo, it is backups upon backups, plus it stores supplies in multiple locations (think of caching). It also means there are multiple people who are prepared to help in times of need, (think group).
Luke 22:31 ¶And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Strenghten brethren can also mean feeding, clothing and housing them as well. Christ looked after the body first, then he taught his Gospel. John 21"17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
If you do not have enough food for even yourself, how can you feed those who hunger, if you barely can cloth yourself how can you cloth the naked, if you can barely take care of your own health, how do you care for the sick?
I shall leave this post for now, as I feel it is starting to get a bit long, anyway, there are many scriptures that can be used to show that prepping is in fact quite scriptural and Christian. enjoy.
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Post by scoutmum on Dec 2, 2014 21:35:37 GMT 10
We had a sermon in church a few months ago about preparedness (though not about prepping). The passage we discussed was the one @gaz mentioned above:
Luke 12:22-34
22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
Our speaker argued that not worrying does not mean not preparing. He used the analogy of looking for a job: we can have faith that God will provide us with the job he wants us to have, but that doesn't mean that He doesn't expect us to type up a resume and apply for jobs!
Afterwards, we were given an opportunity to discuss it further. My husband said only a fool sets off on a journey with half a tank of fuel when he knows that the journey will take a full tank. He pointed out that while we can have faith that God will provide, it's a lot easier to just fuel up the car in the first place: that otherwise you will find yourself worrying (as we are told not to!) about when and where the fuel for your journey will come from.
As I've said before, it can be very worrying looking at the world as a Christian and a mother of two small children. As krull68krull68 said, 'If you do not have enough food for even yourself, how can you feed those who hunger, if you barely can cloth yourself how can you cloth the naked, if you can barely take care of your own health, how do you care for the sick?' Since I have begun prepping in earnest, the voice in my head that worries about my babies and our family and friends has gone quiet.
I don't know if we are in the 'End Times', though the signs certainly seem to point that way! I do know that the world is getting increasingly hostile towards Christians, though, and I feel that something bad is coming, as it has come before many times in our history.
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Post by krull68 on Dec 4, 2014 22:47:38 GMT 10
But we are always in the end times, unless you have been told exactly the details of your end. One person said once, and I whole heartedly agree with the statement:
As he was taking a young fruit tree home to plant (it would take the next 5 years to produce fruit), was asked, "when is Christ returning?". He responded, "I fully expect him to return about this time tomorrow, but today, I am planting this fruit tree and intend to enjoy the fruits of it in about 5 years or so".
To put this in context, I fully expect Christ to be arriving any minute now, but in the mean time I am planning on preparing for fires, floods, civil unrest of short or long times, the end times, and I fully hope I will be leaving many prep items to others when I pass away a very old man.
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Post by Gaz on Dec 8, 2014 7:15:54 GMT 10
As a pentecostal, It is hard for me as 90% believe we will be taken out/Raptured before the tribulation. My good friend said as in Luke 12:22-34, so we don't have to worry!
So I said, what about your family and friends that will be left behind! Should you not be helping them to be prepared! Or has our Christianity become that selfish that it is every man for himself!
Should we not be encouraging people to be saved and showing them how to prepare for what is to come!
I could tell by the look on his face that he needed to take another look at what he believes and has been taught!...Then he said we are each responsible for ourselves!
I said true! we are! But the word says how will someone know something unless they are told and who will tell them if not those who know! If they choose not to be prepared after we tell them, then it is on their own heads! If we don't tell them then we are the ones that will be held accountable for their lives.
Oh...he said. I never thought about it like that.
The problem with Christians is that we take bits and pieces from Gods word to suite ourselves and leave the rest for the scholars. The church leadership will be held accountable for this, but we as individuals will have to share that blame! If you have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will grow and learn and love and give off yourself to others! That is true Christianity: "To help the widows and feed the orphans" Do good to others and not harm!
To love your neighbor as yourself as He has commanded us to, is to love others above ourselves. If this is the case then as we prepare for ourselves we need to teach others to do the same and prepare extra as well! I am still talking about our Christian brothers and sisters here and our close family and friends weather they are saved or not!
The old saying goes, "We can't help everyone" and that is true, but our job is to be the best we can be and help who we can!
Weather you are taken before, midway or at the end of the tribulation it is our responsibility to make sure we have done everything we can to make sure those around us have enough!and are prepared.
The insurance industry understands this principle and sell life Insurance! And we as Christians buy all these insurance policies and yet we fail to make sure our love ones have real life insurance and can survive if anything happens to us.
Just have a think about that, as my good friend is now doing.
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Post by krull68 on Dec 8, 2014 10:33:21 GMT 10
Actually, just thinking about the rapture, or the second coming is both short sighted and selfish.
Until those things happen, we are still living in the world as it currently is, fallen and degrading by the day, thus we have to look at other things as well, job loss, injury, illness, small scale natural disasters (fires, floods, storms, terror attacks etc), should we just say, oh the Lord will look after it, or the gubmit will come to our rescue, while we sit here and preach that it is evil and going to be destroyed?
How can you be in the world but not of the world, if you then turn around and ask the world to look after you? Get self sufficient, get your stuff together and be prepared, especially if they are going to very shortly force the mark of the beast upon anyone who needs to rely on the gubmit for assistance.
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Post by Gaz on Dec 8, 2014 11:57:23 GMT 10
Actually, just thinking about the rapture, or the second coming is both short sighted and selfish. Until those things happen, we are still living in the world as it currently is, fallen and degrading by the day, thus we have to look at other things as well, job loss, injury, illness, small scale natural disasters (fires, floods, storms, terror attacks etc), should we just say, oh the Lord will look after it, or the gubmit will come to our rescue, while we sit here and preach that it is evil and going to be destroyed? How can you be in the world but not of the world, if you then turn around and ask the world to look after you? Get self sufficient, get your stuff together and be prepared, especially if they are going to very shortly force the mark of the beast upon anyone who needs to rely on the gubmit for assistance. I think we need to be careful of what we say here K, I don't believe thinking about anything in the Word of God is either short sighted and selfish. Yes we live in this world and need to live as Christ may not be back for 10,000 years but prepare as if He will return today! For us as Christians we live in this world as so journeyers (visitors) as our home is where Christ is and will be. We should live as Christ would have us live, not as the world does in fear, and reliance on the gubmit..or anyone else for that matter! So for us a Christians I believe it is our duty to prepare for the last days and warn others to be more prepared, as I did with my friend!
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Post by krull68 on Dec 8, 2014 12:56:42 GMT 10
Just preferring to be honest here me ole mate.
Being prepared is exactly what Christ would have us do, when you are prepared you live in hope, peace, and in worldly self reliance.
Also, if you prepare for the second coming, you will in fact be prepared for all the other things that can happen. I prefer to think of it in a way that works for me which is:
Christ told us in no uncertain terms that we would be having natural and man made disasters before his return, including, floods, earthquakes, wars, family feuds, corrupt governments, are amongst the list of things that are to come. Therefore, I prefer to plan for all of these, thus in the long term I am prepared for Christ's return.
For example, where I live, I know that we suffer from floods and droughts mainly at this present point in time, so first preps are for those two, next, we know wars are coming, and looking at the last few (Australia is less prepared now to be self sufficient than in the last two wars), so I am preparing for rationing on a national scale (hiding my food, so govt does not come an pinch them). Then, we know that the one world govt is coming with the anti Christ sitting on the throne, so that is the next objective on our agenda to plan for.
Now if you just started with the end times, you will probably get overwhelmed, like many do (probably like your friend is finding the whole thing), and thus just not get started as it is a big task. So to help in that area, start small, start on a week's supply of food and survival items, then a month, then a year, then once it becomes a part of your lifestyle, working on the end time preps it is simply upscaling your quantity of preps.
So my point to people would be, think big, start small and just start. A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.
And Gaz, you know me, I love everyone, I am just blunt and honest, but it's done with nothing but the Love of Christ.
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Post by Gaz on Dec 8, 2014 16:52:51 GMT 10
Yes, I know mate! And that is all good! I just don't want visitors to the site thinking we are just religious nut...LMAO This is about prepping after all!
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